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00:00:00:06 - 00:00:32:13
Sam Orrin
Today's conversations with David Ballew. David and I met fairly recently in late 2022, but he's one of those people I instantly picture with on a personal level. Professionally with Nimble is his consultancy and his wealth of experience in the theater workforce space. Specifically, his works and navigates the space has just been totally invaluable and there's literally not a conversation with David where I don't leave.
00:00:32:13 - 00:00:46:21
Sam Orrin
It's either smile on my face or my brain is just whirring with ideas and we cover a ton of topics in this conversation about work and life. I hope you enjoy it.
00:00:46:23 - 00:01:08:16
Sam Orrin
Do you feel like in your career work journey, this sexuality was more difficult and to be able to progress your career than or compared to now? Where would you rather been a, you know, bright eyed 18 year old saying your career now or when you started, you know, that kind of.
00:01:08:16 - 00:01:31:18
David Ballew
Yeah, you know, I, I was very fortunate to be part of an organization where it didn't matter. Did we talk about it? Nah, not really. Did it come up in conversation once in a while? Yeah, maybe. But it wasn't. Never became an issue. Never was an issue. It never held me back as a professional in advancing my career.
00:01:31:20 - 00:01:55:18
David Ballew
But I was very, very fortunate and I always knew I was fortunate. I was very early on in my career, I was very hesitant about the corporate world because I am an extremely creative person. I'm creative based, and I always thought that the business world was very logical, right? And and creativity didn't really have a place in in the corporate world.
00:01:55:19 - 00:02:16:24
David Ballew
And what I found was the corporate world was starving for creativity. And so it actually, I think, worked to my benefit that I had a creative background. And so when I did get into the corporate world, I quickly realized creativity was was a definite positive, but actually put me ahead of the game. And the other really, you know, was never at issue.
00:02:17:00 - 00:02:25:17
David Ballew
Now, that's not the same story or journey that other people have had. So I guess that really depends on where the world you are and the organization you're working for.
00:02:25:21 - 00:02:28:06
Sam Orrin
Where where in the US is this?
00:02:28:08 - 00:02:28:17
David Ballew
This is a.
00:02:28:17 - 00:02:53:16
Sam Orrin
Detroit In Detroit. Yeah. See, Detroit is an interesting city. I think I'm I'm obsessed with. I did history at university and even though I didn't really like it and before that, I did fine art for a year and flunked it. So yeah, I would definitely say I'm a similar type of create. I love I love the idea of being creative, and I definitely am creative in my general life and work and stuff.
00:02:53:18 - 00:03:17:09
Sam Orrin
And I did history and I specifically, uh, studied subcultures, youth, subcultures. And Detroit is one of those cities where, you know, you were talking about war like, I mean, the period of time that I read and read about in books would be kind of the late seventies, early eighties, where it was a fucking hard city to be in, wasn't it?
00:03:17:11 - 00:03:23:23
Sam Orrin
Yeah, well, by the sounds of it. But also had this like liberation of sorts with it didn't it.
00:03:23:23 - 00:03:44:03
David Ballew
Didn't you know, it didn't, it didn't. It's, it's, it's a, it's a unique place. Born and raised there. I mean when I was growing up I dunno if you ever saw a film eight Mile with Eminem. Yeah. That's probably the best depiction of Detroit that I've ever seen that, isn't it? Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's very real world. We know what I was growing up.
00:03:44:03 - 00:04:03:20
David Ballew
You didn't dare go south of Eight Mile. You just didn't. You just didn't go down there. If you if you were white and living in the suburbs and you were a kid, you just, you know, you just didn't go there. And I'm and I'm speaking from my experience. Other people, I'm sure, had different experiences in Detroit. But, you know, where I was coming from, you just didn't go there.
00:04:03:22 - 00:04:23:21
David Ballew
Now, you know, interestingly, linking back to to the sexuality side of the conversation that you began with, it was interesting because if you wanted to go out to a club, you had to go down into the into the ghetto of Detroit. You had no other place to go. So that created a whole different type of of experience. You know, growing up.
00:04:23:23 - 00:04:42:24
David Ballew
It's very different now. Excuse me, Detroit has has really come, you know, light years ahead of where it was back. You've been from the sixties when that white flight happened and the city was burning and etc., and all of that unfortunate situation that happened there, which still to this day has a knock on effect to the people who live in the area.
00:04:43:00 - 00:05:07:21
David Ballew
Yeah, whether you're in the city or in the suburbs. So it is a very unique and unusual place that I encourage people to visit and it is in constant change. There are some really great people in the city of Detroit. I lived downtown before I moved over to the UK. I lived downtown in a high rise on the river and I loved it and although it was, it was a mix of, you know, the haves and the have nots.
00:05:07:23 - 00:05:14:23
David Ballew
It was just a very different and unique living experience. I think very few people in the world ever get to get to give it a go.
00:05:14:23 - 00:05:37:08
Sam Orrin
So yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a, it's a it's a city with serious and kind of socio economic histories and of you know, it's been gentrified numerous times and failed an industry of injected cash into it multiple times and it's kind of failed and I don't know where it's at today. It feels like it's still in a state isn't it.
00:05:37:10 - 00:05:38:08
Sam Orrin
Cash flow as in.
00:05:38:08 - 00:06:04:02
David Ballew
And yeah they, they have you know, regeneration, etc. etc. There are things that happen but until I think they fix kind of going down a different path here, until they fix the educational system, you know, there was a large population of young people moving into the city and everybody thought, this is great, this is great. And they were buying condominiums and homes and refurbishing and all this kind of stuff happening excuse me, which was really fantastic.
00:06:04:02 - 00:06:26:04
David Ballew
But then once they started having children, they would move back to the suburbs because you wouldn't want to put your child into a unfortunately, a DPS are most wouldn't want to do that into a tribal school system. So it was either that, you know, move to move back to the suburbs and raise your family or stay in the city, but pay, you know, a lot of money for your children to go to a private school.
00:06:26:05 - 00:06:27:15
Sam Orrin
Right.
00:06:27:17 - 00:06:48:03
David Ballew
But it it's it's is definitely one of those cities. And I've traveled really all over the world. It's it's really a city that is so unique. I have never found another city like it, you know, with the abandoned buildings and it's and so on. But it looks like a war zone. Yes. It's just so different.
00:06:48:05 - 00:07:01:22
Sam Orrin
And so your you referenced your, you know, your first employer, but you didn't say they're a good employer, but you said that they didn't really matter and sexuality wasn't really questioned. But that was catty services, right?
00:07:01:24 - 00:07:09:23
David Ballew
No, that was my second. It was I'm a Sex International. And they were they were an incredible organization to work for. They are now the magnet of the world all.
00:07:10:00 - 00:07:12:19
Sam Orrin
Well, exactly what they call.
00:07:12:21 - 00:07:36:11
David Ballew
What I was there. It was more Sex International and Sex International. Yeah. And then it evolved over time. It went to Guy and then eventually it became Magnet. But it was it was I it was an education. It was like attending a university every day was a school day, and it was a lot of very, very good people working together.
00:07:36:13 - 00:07:39:00
David Ballew
And yeah, it was a great experience.
00:07:39:03 - 00:07:43:02
Sam Orrin
How do you, how do you fall into that job?
00:07:43:04 - 00:07:55:24
David Ballew
It was it was after Kelly Services. I knew people at MSN Sex and long story short, I just ended up there. It was in I Stay There for 17 year 18 years. Yeah, a long time.
00:07:56:01 - 00:08:02:10
Sam Orrin
Yeah. Yeah. But how about how did he answer it? And do you know you applied for a job? I assume at some point.
00:08:02:12 - 00:08:36:07
David Ballew
Well, how I got into this whole world was her. In the early nineties, I owned a interior design firm in Detroit and I was doing very well and that's what my original degree was in at the time. And I was doing very well. And the economy tanked and several of my largest clients pulled the projects. And as, as a result of that, the business tanked, literally tanked within a matter of weeks.
00:08:36:09 - 00:09:12:18
David Ballew
And I ended up in bankruptcy court. My company ended up in bankruptcy court. And it was a life changing experience and a big learning experience away. And I was 20 MIT early to mid twenties. Yeah, so very young. You so I went from making six figures not starting with a one and was doing very well and you know had all of the that the cars and whatever else that went along with being young and wonderful and thinking you're pretty good and ended up in the bankruptcy court in front of a judge.
00:09:12:18 - 00:09:33:21
David Ballew
And that was a very humiliating experience. But it was it was a literal life changing moment. I'm forever grateful for that moment. And I went off to Chicago for about three years at two different things while I was there. But I, you know, rarely ever set an alarm clock. And finally my parents picked up the phone and called and said, Hey, don't you think it's about time you, you know, basically get your shit together?
00:09:33:21 - 00:09:52:16
David Ballew
And I'm like, Yeah, you're probably right. And my mother was was an accountant. She she had gone through it. She had was doing all the books for my company when I had it in Detroit. And she, she called and said, Hey, you know, I've gone through and looked at it and there was this aspect of what I was doing that the margins were extremely good.
00:09:52:16 - 00:10:10:00
David Ballew
If you come back to Detroit, we'll help you get set back up in business. So I went back to Detroit reluctantly and I had a really hard time getting back into the groove of getting up in the morning every day and all that drives. And my mother suggested, Why don't you just go get a temp job just to get back into the routine of working?
00:10:10:02 - 00:10:33:04
David Ballew
And so I was very near by the Kelley headquarters, and I went to the Kelley branch in Troy, Michigan, and I took all the tests back in the day and, oh, well, you know, you you're coming in as like an executive admin. You had all the skills and typing and whatever else back then. So I took a two week assignment at the Kelley headquarters in the National Marketing Department.
00:10:33:04 - 00:10:59:11
David Ballew
It was called back then making $8.50 an hour. So I went from where I was to $8.50 an hour for this two week assignment, and it was doing data entry and Excel spreadsheets and entering prices for car parts was a study that Kelley was doing for one of the big OEMs. And I finished the project in about two or three days and I went to my manager.
00:10:59:11 - 00:11:14:12
David Ballew
I said, I think I'm finished. And I thought, you can't be. I don't know. So she checked it and I showed up. I was finished. I had finished the entire project, which they had anticipated would take two weeks. I was finished in two or three days. So she handed me a file and said, Oh, here, got you this, and then to this.
00:11:14:12 - 00:11:35:01
David Ballew
And that just led to one of the project, another project before I realized I had been there for several weeks. I wasn't making any money, but I was having a really good time and I was enjoying it. It was a very interesting. The whole concept of temporary labor back then was very interesting to me, and so I ended up stay there for three or four months and eventually they came and said, Would you be interested in working for us full time?
00:11:35:01 - 00:11:47:15
David Ballew
And I said, Oh, I don't. Well, you know, And they said, Well, we have this position in Chicago. And I had just come back from Chicago. All my friends are in Chicago and I'm like, Oh, hell yes, I'm out of here. I'm going to to Chicago.
00:11:47:19 - 00:11:48:13
Sam Orrin
Yeah.
00:11:48:15 - 00:12:17:03
David Ballew
So that's what I what? I ended up in Chicago working in one of their one of their branches there. And I was quickly promoted. Long story short, I did have a stint I had left and worked for a competitor who shall remain nameless. I did not enjoy it, but I learned a hell of a lot of information and and was recruited back to Kelley Services to help them create this program of what didn't even exist at the time, which turned out to be the MSSP world as we know it today.
00:12:17:05 - 00:12:41:19
David Ballew
And myself and a couple other people at Kelley Services created the the MSSP for them from scratch, from nothing didn't exist. And it was I was fortunate a kind of being in the right place at the right time and and I think had had proven myself enough that they asked me to come back. I remember having my interview, my return interview with it.
00:12:41:21 - 00:13:13:20
David Ballew
The person at the time was still in the industry. And, you know, he was extremely influential in helping me progress my career. You know, I had to trade a whole supplier program, supplier onboarding supplier contracts. We had no supplier contract. I had nothing. So I was creating everything from scratch and working with some really, really incredible people at that at the Kelley headquarters and and sometimes silly me, not realizing who I was having conversations with.
00:13:13:22 - 00:13:27:15
David Ballew
You know, these are some of the top leaders of the organization, especially the legal department. And I remember there was a memo that came out also. And so I was retiring and I picked up the phone. I called him. I said, I can't believe you've been taking my calls for for the last, you know, two or three months.
00:13:27:15 - 00:13:43:03
David Ballew
You know, you're top dog. And I'm like, you know, a nobody in Chicago, basically. And he's that you know what he said? He said, remember this forever. Pay it forward. Yeah. You do the same thing for other people. As you progress in your career, you make sure that you look after the the younger folks.
00:13:43:08 - 00:14:19:14
Sam Orrin
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly what I got going in my career. My dad repeatedly said to me that my brother's be gracious on your way up because you need people on the way down, which I think is a really it's kind of, I guess, kind of sad, but it's a good way to live. I definitely think the other the other you know, interesting thing about that is, you know, not really looking at people's job titles or, you know, who they are.
00:14:19:16 - 00:14:23:17
Sam Orrin
And true to just treating people generally, the respect goes quite a long way, doesn't it?
00:14:23:19 - 00:14:35:14
David Ballew
It does. And I and that's always funny. I got out on calls and, you know, they're doing general introductions and there are certain countries around the world where titles are extremely important to me. You know.
00:14:35:16 - 00:15:02:21
Sam Orrin
I was going to say massive generalization, but I found in the U.S. hierarchy matters. Doesn't that I know it's a mentality thing. There's definitely colleagues and friends of mine that are, you know, who I wouldn't talk to her. She's the CFO and you're like, she's still, you know, human being. She still goes to the head. But yeah, it's funny how that that's definitely still a it's definitely a thing, right?
00:15:02:21 - 00:15:07:24
Sam Orrin
Hierarchy and respect respect your elders, I guess.
00:15:08:01 - 00:15:46:11
David Ballew
I the, the whole ethos of of nimble right is you know real people, real feelings, real innovation that the real people and the real feelings came out of my experience for, you know, 20 plus years and working in the corporate world where I saw not just, you know, in our own organization, but suppliers, etc., clients, etc., you see this this hierarchy of structure in that organization, the organization structure where people are necessarily people, they're they're a thing in a box and that does a function and feelings really didn't matter.
00:15:46:13 - 00:16:24:20
David Ballew
You know, often leaders didn't care about feelings. They really wanted to know about the facts. And I remember pushing back many times to say, well, it's not just the facts there. There are other influencers that that impact decisions and how how decisions are made. Sure, facts are important, but it's not just about the facts of intuition, you know, relationships, the vibe you get sitting in the room or sitting in front of a client, you know, the body language, the the all of the biometric, whatever you want to call it that goes along with that, which I'm absolutely fascinated by.
00:16:24:21 - 00:16:36:12
David Ballew
But it's it's extremely important to be able to read the room and be able to read the people that you're having a conversation with and to see how they're feeling privately, how they're feeling. It's really, really important.
00:16:36:12 - 00:17:04:10
Sam Orrin
I totally and I think I think it's I don't know if I'd call it a skill necessarily, but you can definitely work on it, but it's what differentiates good managers and bad managers, good leaders and bad leaders. And I think that's what differentiates humans from I mean, I've got a thing at the moment, the chatbot, you I think it's so lazy and people are like jumping on this bandwagon to try and create any answer they can, but they don't really know.
00:17:04:10 - 00:17:29:14
Sam Orrin
The question is in the first place, but with whatever tool they have at the time, it's chatty beta at the moment. Then you look at like, you know, jobs and where work's going to go and you just think, Well, the differentiator for me and the different needs for us as a company in the last four years, we've hired we've hired probably hundreds, including churn, probably will hire 150 people.
00:17:29:16 - 00:17:49:12
Sam Orrin
And the differentiator is always the person, not the CV or their skill or, you know, we we we make people go through sometimes five, six, seven rounds of inches, which is, you know, people feedback is overkill, but we want to get the right people So difficult. But is the differentiator. Sure.
00:17:49:14 - 00:18:13:11
David Ballew
Yeah. Years ago there was there was an E coli based on the headquarters and she was talking about a firecracker. She was probably five two, five, three and boy, did she know our business. And she said to me once that she made her hiring decision, she would go and meet, meet the candidate at the elevator, the bank of elevators, and she would walk them from the elevator to her office for the interview.
00:18:13:13 - 00:18:28:12
David Ballew
And these would have been, you know, high level senior people that she would have been interviewing, not, you know, your regular employees. And she made her hiring decision from the time she got back from the walk from the elevator to back to her office. She knew whether or not she was going to hire them. It was all about the energy.
00:18:28:14 - 00:18:45:07
David Ballew
You can teach people, you can educate people, but what you can't do is you can't educate, you can't teach energy. Energy is something that is they either have it or they don't. You know, the personnel, the skills, the empathy skills. And I'm not talking you know, empathy seems to be another one of those buzzwords like A.I. these days.
00:18:45:07 - 00:19:03:19
David Ballew
It's all about people and all feeling good and all this, you know, stuff happening in the business world. And it makes me laugh because I think while you're finally waking up, but it has to be genuine. It can't be something that you just decide you're going to be, Oh, today I'm going to be empathetic. Oh, it doesn't work that way.
00:19:03:21 - 00:19:28:17
David Ballew
And it's interesting cause you know what you do look at the the the corporate globally, you look at the corporate world and there's so much nepotism and narcissism and etc., etc., etc.. And I do believe at a certain level you do need some of those traits in order to be successful. I do think that at the highest levels possible, I think there is a need for that type of thinking.
00:19:28:17 - 00:19:41:23
David Ballew
But I also think it also needs to have a little bit of a balance in there. And that balance could be someone who perhaps the CEO has brought on board to partner with them because they understand they don't have those traits. So if you don't have just like a skill, if you don't have the skill, you hire the skill.
00:19:42:00 - 00:20:01:01
David Ballew
So you can you can hire the the right executive to be on your board or on your team that will help to balance out perhaps that narcissism or whatever else you're talking about. But yeah, I took it a bit frustrated sometimes when I see a lot of articles and whatever else about oh you know, people and empathy and we need to be leaders and etc..
00:20:01:01 - 00:20:24:05
David Ballew
It's like you guys, you either have it or you don't. It's not something you learn. It's great to be aware. Don't get me wrong, I think awareness is huge. I think awareness is huge. But you need to if you're going to build out an organization, you need to build it out with a well-balanced group of people that have all the different traits, because that's when you really have a power machine that you can really be successful.
00:20:24:07 - 00:20:41:24
Sam Orrin
You have to go, I'm going to David Bailey now, and for you it is life is life work. The separate work in life is that if you always separated life and work or, you know, do you do that?
00:20:42:01 - 00:21:07:12
David Ballew
I think it's important that they are separated. But I know how I'm wired. Yeah, I wish for me that it was a separation. I, I, I identify too much with what I do on a daily basis, but I think that is because I absolutely love this business. I love what I do. I don't ever wake up in the morning and think, Oh, I said I have to go to work or I have to I have to do this today, or I have these meetings today.
00:21:07:14 - 00:21:28:03
David Ballew
My brain doesn't function that way. I love what we do, what we do in this business is is so humanitarian. We put people to work. We help people earn a living, pay for their mortgage, pay for their car, pay for their children's education. You know, pick, pick whatever you want on the list. We change people's lives every single day.
00:21:28:05 - 00:21:45:19
David Ballew
There are not a lot of professions in the world who have that that luxury of being able to make such a difference in the world. It's huge. It's huge. And I think for me, you know, my work sort of defines who I am as a person and and the other way around.
00:21:45:21 - 00:21:57:10
Sam Orrin
Does it does it flow into do you have to put barriers up sometimes to stop it flowing into, you know, if you go away for a long weekend or holiday or does your partner say, David, shut that?
00:21:57:12 - 00:22:06:09
David Ballew
So no, I'm actually very fortunate because the people closest to me in my world understand how I'm wired.
00:22:06:09 - 00:22:07:12
Sam Orrin
Yeah, yeah.
00:22:07:14 - 00:22:42:07
David Ballew
And they know that it's not my job. It is. It's who I am. Really. That's. I love what I do so much. And so that passion drives. And technology has really been an enabler for for me anyway. And some people might think this is not healthy, but for me it's actually very healthy. The technology has allowed me to be almost in in constant touch with what's happening with our clients, with consultants, with with people like yourselves, you name it, real time response nearly.
00:22:42:09 - 00:23:00:03
David Ballew
And I get that respect that that comment. Often you're like, Oh my God, I just sent this to you 3 hours ago and you've already in our 20 minutes ago and you've already responded. That's because it's in my hand. My, my phone. I do more for my phone than I'd probably do for anything else. And that's a luxury, I think.
00:23:00:05 - 00:23:28:04
David Ballew
Oh my God, how things have changed. You know, I can remember the days when there were, you know, I learned on a manual typewriter. I remember when we got our very first electric typewriter, you know, and then we had fax machines and, oh, my God, isn't this cool? And, you know, things have changed so much. But having the luxury of of technology, it it doesn't I don't view it as an interruption to my day or interruption to my night or my evening or my whatever.
00:23:28:06 - 00:23:32:03
David Ballew
If I'm out for dinner. But I'll I'll I won't be looking at my phone. You know, you've.
00:23:32:03 - 00:23:33:24
Sam Orrin
Got the you've got the self-control to date.
00:23:34:01 - 00:23:39:21
David Ballew
Yes. Yes, I do. Yeah. It depends on where I am and who I'm with. And, you know, whatever the situation.
00:23:39:23 - 00:24:11:17
Sam Orrin
Here might be a good excuse to get on your phone, do you think? I think people kind of glamorize the the the the past, as it were, with the but at the same time, there is definitely a part of me that craves some. Otherwise, I struggle with this attention. My attention span is shot to pieces, you know, on any given day, you know, how many times have you got even on your do you open 52 tabs and then at the end of that you would go, How do you share every tabs of I got open air.
00:24:11:17 - 00:24:13:03
Sam Orrin
I need to.
00:24:13:05 - 00:24:15:02
David Ballew
Well, at the moment I only have four.
00:24:15:06 - 00:24:17:05
Sam Orrin
Oh, how annoying.
00:24:17:07 - 00:24:38:04
David Ballew
Yeah, yeah. No, I actually I think I do a pretty good job in keeping because I'm definitely A.D.D.. I know that. And my brain just goes a million miles a minute. I'm constantly scattered, so I have a thought and I either will write it literally on a piece of paper old school. I will write it like I have right here on a piece of paper, and it sits next to me right here.
00:24:38:04 - 00:25:00:16
David Ballew
But before I walk away from my desk later tonight, I will have ticked every box that's on that piece of paper. That piece of paper goes away. Yeah. Or if I'm out and about, even if I'm in bed watching television and something comes and it hits my brain, which it does all the time, I email myself. And in the subject line, it's it's whatever it is I'm supposed to remember to do, or a concept or an idea, whatever.
00:25:00:18 - 00:25:09:23
David Ballew
I do that all the time, and then I can easily go back and sort and then delete as I, as I, as I do them. But I really try to keep things to a minimum.
00:25:10:02 - 00:25:27:00
Sam Orrin
Yeah, it's good writing. My my notes in my phone is like, you know, Memoirs of a Mad Man. It's just like it just lists ideas, things that I've written down and then, you know, it would be like three months later and go, Oh, yeah, that would have been pretty good.
00:25:27:02 - 00:25:52:22
David Ballew
Yeah. No, I don't use notes. I don't use notes on my phone that way. I that because that just becomes another dumping ground. So if I, if I put it into my email account then it's something that I will see. It doesn't get buried in an app somewhere and it stays visible until either actionable or delete it. And I know myself well enough that I won't delete it until I action it.
00:25:52:24 - 00:26:06:22
David Ballew
That's just how I'm wired to. So if I put it there, then I know it's going to happen. I don't even use you know, I don't I shouldn't say this. Rarely will I use like tasks or something like that. Am I in my calendar? I will use my email.
00:26:06:24 - 00:26:24:16
Sam Orrin
I think I think that what people do, I don't think many Mathias are one of the founders here. He he uses, as I think we use at least used to use, he told me to use Evernote. And the, the problem with it is is that I need to really push myself into the routine of using it. And the reality is I just don't.
00:26:24:16 - 00:26:38:20
Sam Orrin
I actually now use a spreadsheet, so I just write down everything I need to do for the day on the spreadsheet and again, it's pretty it feels pretty archaic, but it kind of works and everything.
00:26:38:21 - 00:27:00:12
David Ballew
It just depends on who you are and how you, how you process information, right? Yeah, I'm highly visual. I need to see it. And you know, I can be analytical if I need to be, you know, I can be a data warrior if I absolutely need to be. But, you know, it does my mind in because I am dyslexic, highly, severely dyslexic, actually.
00:27:00:14 - 00:27:08:11
David Ballew
Yeah. For many years I never realized that. I didn't know intellectually I was an adult, that I had that problem. Yeah, that challenge, whatever you want to call it.
00:27:08:13 - 00:27:13:12
Sam Orrin
But right. So that's why you find out you. Have you been diagnosed dyslexic?
00:27:13:14 - 00:27:15:08
David Ballew
I have been diagnosed.
00:27:15:10 - 00:27:17:06
Sam Orrin
And you get diagnosed.
00:27:17:08 - 00:27:18:15
David Ballew
I was in my forties.
00:27:18:16 - 00:27:19:02
Sam Orrin
Wow.
00:27:19:02 - 00:27:25:17
David Ballew
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and then it allowed me to look back historically over life and be like, Oh my God, that explains.
00:27:25:17 - 00:27:29:07
Sam Orrin
So, yeah, this all makes sense now. Yeah.
00:27:29:10 - 00:27:48:01
David Ballew
Yeah. It was really one of those pretty significant aha moments, those life changing moments where I'm like, Holy shit, That's why that happens all the time. I, I was with a colleague. Not that lot. Well, here in the UK a few years back and we were out walking together and I said a very short sentence, This is bizarre.
00:27:48:03 - 00:28:10:11
David Ballew
This is the worst of anything I've ever had experienced from a dyslexia perspective. Every other word of the sentence had been reversed. That was a short sentence, maybe 6 to 8 words probably. I can't remember now with this sentence was and I would love to remember the sentence, but every other word was reversed. Yeah, it was bizarre, absolutely bizarre.
00:28:10:11 - 00:28:41:16
David Ballew
And he looked at me and he's like, What? And I'm like, Yeah, what did I just say? And he's like, Yeah. And then you know, in the moment we were like, You just reversed every other word of the sentence. It was like, really like one of those mind bending moments. But yeah, so I tend to obsess, you know, while I'm writing or while I'm doing an email or, you know, sometimes, you know, all confessions out there, sometimes I'll, I'll, I will write an email and I'll, I'll revise it four or five or six times.
00:28:41:18 - 00:28:45:23
David Ballew
You know, sometimes I drive myself absolutely batty. And I said, okay, enough, stop. Let it go.
00:28:46:00 - 00:28:55:02
Sam Orrin
Is that is that because of the kind of worry of messing up your words or spelling mistakes or just because your your mind wants. So keep just refining.
00:28:55:02 - 00:29:20:11
David Ballew
It was my mind was to keep refining because now I use grammarly for sentence structure and it will catch my dyslexia. So that gets corrected. And I don't, you know, drive myself crazy about that kind of stuff. But it's about refinement. And I've learned that, you know, there is no such thing as perfection. Yeah. And you do need to let go and it doesn't have to be perfect.
00:29:20:13 - 00:29:43:24
Sam Orrin
Yeah, totally. I agree. I read a book called It's quite a good book if you ever read it called Chaos Monkeys. And it's about the early days of Facebook and Mark Zuckerberg and all that, you know, nerds and building Facebook and the poster they'd have on the walls in the office or the shed or wherever they started it was done, is better than perfect, but just get it done.
00:29:44:01 - 00:30:15:20
Sam Orrin
Get in. Shit, Get out. Now. I've only just really appreciate that because I think a lot of it was based on a lot of, you know, he he idolizes all of these big business CEOs who basically have the same mantra. It's like, get, get, get it. Shit doesn't matter. Worry about it. Like there's only ten. And in the last three, four, four years, I've definitely started being a way more critical in terms of just getting shit done because otherwise, you know, you could just sit on things for forever, right?
00:30:15:22 - 00:30:18:21
Sam Orrin
And then they end up not getting done.
00:30:18:23 - 00:30:45:16
David Ballew
I think there's a balance somewhere in the middle and I think that the quality of the product that you're putting out is important because it does reflect a new and the organization. So I think it's important that the quality of what you're putting out. But now there are tools that help with the quality, that help with the smaller things like the Grammarly as an example, you know, correct grammar, whatever you want to talk about, but content is, is where is where.
00:30:45:17 - 00:31:09:01
David Ballew
I think the importance is that you, that you've hit the right content, that it's in a logical format and that you've addressed what needed to be addressed. And sometimes when you get busy and things happen quickly, you you miss things that are really important, really, really important touch points that just get missed off the list because you're in such a rush to get it out the door.
00:31:09:03 - 00:31:13:18
David Ballew
And it's those touch points that can make all the difference in winning the winning the contract or not.
00:31:13:20 - 00:31:56:03
Sam Orrin
Well, especially like you said, especially in this industry, which is all about people and, you know, people definitely with no or very little education have gone in to be, you know, massive leaders in this in this space. And that they you know, it is definitely a people a people industry and a quick one. Then as the two to finish off, David and which was fucking a lot about different stages of time but looking back, you know, uh, you know the entirety of time, which period of time do you think you'd, you would have liked to have lived and worked in?
00:31:56:05 - 00:32:10:10
Sam Orrin
Do you have a romantic side to you that looks back on things? So if I knew I could have been alive then and, you know, would you have, like, to be a caveman? Uh, hunting bears every day with a piece of flint? Oh.
00:32:10:12 - 00:32:30:21
David Ballew
Yeah, definitely. Definitely not the caveman. I would probably project myself forward. You know what? I. I don't want to go back. I want to move forward. Know, I would say I would love to jump forward, even 20 years from now, as it may not scare.
00:32:30:21 - 00:32:31:20
Sam Orrin
The shit out of you.
00:32:31:23 - 00:32:56:15
David Ballew
I know. Oh, my God. No, I. You know, I've talked already before about, you know, I email and all the rest of it. I, I am absolutely so frickin excited about this stuff, and I can't imagine I mean, look where we've come. My grandmother, my, my, my grandma Bolu, she was born in 1895, and they had a horse and carriage at my grandmother.
00:32:56:15 - 00:33:25:03
David Ballew
Yeah. Now, mind you, she died 30 something years ago. Now, that was my grandma. I remember very well, very well. And horse and carriage, etc., etc., etc.. 1895. Look at what's happened. You can look at that. 30 years, 30, 30, 30 odd years since she's died. What has happened? You know, we've gone from I remember my first mobile phone like, oh my God, it was an clunky, huge beast of a thing.
00:33:25:05 - 00:33:45:12
David Ballew
And now basically, you know, the the power of what's in our our our handheld mobile phone is more than, you know, what, they had to go to the moon, you know, on the Apollo. It's pretty frickin amazing when you think about it. And now project forward, That's where my brain goes. It's like, Holy shit, where are we going to be in 20 years?
00:33:45:12 - 00:34:08:17
David Ballew
30 years? 40 years? Wow. Like, what is that going to be in the next 5 to 10 years? Where are we going to be? I remember having conversations with people not that long ago about A.I. and knowing that it was a lot of it had already been developed. It just hadn't been released out to the world because there were discussions about what will this do?
00:34:08:18 - 00:34:38:17
David Ballew
Like, you know, it's mind bending when you think about it. And so how will this impact the world, the world economy, the world of work, etc.? And then, you know, things started popping out, things started coming up and now it's like, holy shit was the stuff that's happening is just literally you would not have even imagined, like when, you know, when you were kids, we would watch, I don't know, Lost in Space or whatever those, those, those series.
00:34:38:17 - 00:34:56:24
David Ballew
And to be like, wow is in that car. Was that cool? Wow. If only I could, you know, tell a Talib whatever teleport myself it look where we are today And I look at the young kids today think, my God, what is going to happen in your lifetime? So yeah, I kind of reversed your question on you there.
00:34:56:24 - 00:35:07:11
David Ballew
Maybe that's my dyslexia too. I went the opposite direction, but I do think what an what an exciting time to be alive. You know.
00:35:07:15 - 00:35:09:04
Sam Orrin
And the the optimally.
00:35:09:05 - 00:35:13:09
David Ballew
Yes, absolutely. I'm not saying I don't have my down date my downtimes but.
00:35:13:09 - 00:35:31:09
Sam Orrin
Yeah but it's no I think it's it's far nicer and it gives you far more positive much more positivity to to think of the future in that way. And there's a really there's a really nice book called What We Made that's a retrospective and it's like 15 years old now. But it's it's written as if it was in 2050.
00:35:31:11 - 00:36:03:16
Sam Orrin
And it's just lots of examples of how the world is going to be better is, you know, agriculture and uh, were uh, you know, this the big financial, you know, every, everything that you eat, they try to think it's made by group of researchers and author about this one guy. And every now I do look at every now and then because it tells me otherwise, I start thinking Black Mirror, you know, And as soon as you start looking at technology and through that lens, you know, there's no reason to go to bed the morning, Is that.
00:36:03:17 - 00:36:28:13
David Ballew
Yeah, well, I don't I don't go down that path. I know people do. Yeah. And I don't, I don't, I don't go down that path. Yeah. And I tend to surround myself with people who are of like mind and I think that's really important. There are a lot of negative people, trust me. You know, when when you're when you've got a startup in you and you're trying to grow your business, there are many, many, many negative people out there, many people who I used to work with.
00:36:28:15 - 00:36:30:00
David Ballew
You know, I.
00:36:30:02 - 00:36:31:15
Sam Orrin
I, I, you.
00:36:31:15 - 00:36:46:04
David Ballew
Just have to ignore it and be like, you live your life. That's fine. You want to you want to do what you do. You do what you do. I'm going to do what I'm doing and I love what I'm doing. So good luck. You know I wish you well. I don't wish negativity on anyone, but, you know, although maybe there are a few.
00:36:46:04 - 00:37:08:08
David Ballew
Just kidding. But yeah, I think it's important to to to take care of your mental health because nobody else is going to do it for you. You have to maintain your own mental health. And I think it's important that people understand don't rely on other people for to make you happy or your job to make you happy. You have to make yourself happy.
00:37:08:10 - 00:37:26:04
David Ballew
Same with all of I have a boyfriend or girlfriend or a wife or whatever. That's not going to make you happy. And same with moving. Oh, I'm moving because things aren't going well in my life. I need a fresh start. Yeah, no, all the problems are going to go right along with you. So you need to take care of yourself.
00:37:26:04 - 00:37:49:21
David Ballew
And I think when people realize that what other people think doesn't matter anymore, I don't care what you think of me, because that just doesn't have any relevance in my life. What matters to me is what I think of me and am I happy with what I'm doing? And oh, by the way, am I doing what's right? Am I doing the right things?
00:37:49:23 - 00:38:11:08
David Ballew
And I think that's really important. And giving back, like I said earlier, I think it's really, really important for leadership, whether it's in the corporate world or nonprofit or wherever you might be. I think it's really important that leaders who have those life experiences and I do consider myself extremely fortunate. I've been to over 100 countries. I've done treks through the Amazon jungle.
00:38:11:08 - 00:38:30:15
David Ballew
I've done all kinds of really crazy, crazy but amazing life changing things and I think, okay, I've learned something from all of those and I do need to give it back. And I love giving back. I love helping. You know, I was on a call yesterday with a sales guy from from a tech company and how.
00:38:30:15 - 00:38:32:15
Sam Orrin
Can I hate those.
00:38:32:17 - 00:38:54:10
David Ballew
That. Yeah, I know. Me too. Haha. And it was a background verification type company and I was a result of an article I'd put out on LinkedIn not that long ago. And so we're having this conversation and they're at the time right now, there's no opportunity for us to work together. But I, but I know of several people who he needs to have a conversation with.
00:38:54:12 - 00:39:16:13
David Ballew
Now. This guy is in his early twenties trying to make it, trying to be successful, trying doing all the right things, you know, And you could tell that he had a good spirit. He was a good person. And so within 30 minutes, 40 minutes after that call ended, I had connected him with two other potential business relationships that I believe he will benefit from.
00:39:16:15 - 00:39:32:06
David Ballew
And I think it's important that you're not going to get anything out of that. You know, there's no back end deal. There's no affiliate contract in the back end that's going to pay me a commission if they do business to get that. No, that's not there. This is just doing the right thing and helping people and helping others to be successful.
00:39:32:06 - 00:39:38:05
David Ballew
I will tell you, when you do that, it does that old saying it does come back tenfold triumphantly.
00:39:38:06 - 00:40:09:01
Sam Orrin
Absolutely they can. Looking back at it, I've been working for sure, obviously a shorter than you have been. What, just over a decade by looking back a the the crucial jobs or people in my like you know 1012 years of working there's a handful that did that is a handful that went out of their way to make my life really easy and serve almost serving things up on a platter and they absolutely didn't need to.
00:40:09:03 - 00:40:32:07
Sam Orrin
And compared to the people that, you know, you had, there's pretty ten times more people that made it incredibly challenging and and within themselves. And, you know, you look every now and then they'll pop up. I'll see them on another I we are linked in or even Instagram that could be you know made it made things really difficult and you know then envy you in any way now.
00:40:32:10 - 00:40:46:09
Sam Orrin
So yeah hope that's the world that we're creating this kind of an empathetic world where, you know, people being positive to each other does matter because technology is taking over everything else, right?
00:40:46:11 - 00:41:03:08
David Ballew
Yeah, absolutely. It's going to come down to people, you know, the tech is the enabler, but you still have to have people where the people business, you know, that's what we do care about people. Yeah. Yeah.
00:41:03:10 - 00:41:05:00
Sam Orrin
Thanks. David Lopez.
00:41:05:02 - 00:41:08:20
David Ballew
Great. You're welcome. Thank you for asking. I've really enjoyed the conversation.
00:41:08:22 - 00:41:10:13
Sam Orrin
Likewise. Until next time.
00:41:10:15 - 00:41:11:16
David Ballew
Yeah. Stay out of trouble.